Recently, Irfan and Richard joined forces to catch up with Mukhtar Sahota at the comfortable studios of new label Realtone Records in Birmingham. Mukhtar's album '4 The Muzik' has done very well and the video for 'Jogi' has had rave reviews, Mukhtar had to keep on his toes as the questions came thick and fast.

The comments of each of them have been colour co-ordinated to help you distinguish who is saying what. The following key can be used as a guide to help you with this as well.

Irfan: For all the people who don't know who Mukhtar Sahota is, give us a brief intro.

Mukhtar: It started back when I was still at school in the music rooms and the new head of music bought a lot of Indian instruments in, instead of the violins and the cellos that used to be there, and I was interested in the harmonium, dholki and tabla and I could play a little bit so the music teacher asked me if I knew anyone who could and I said my brothers could, and he effectively put 'The Sahotas' together in an after school session. Surj could sing, Raj was playing the tabla and I was on the harmonium and the teacher persuaded us to enter a few competitions for schools and we did so well that we were invited to play at the Royal Albert Hall. Being only sixteen and performing in front of a full house, it was a frightening experience. From there we realised we could take it to the next stage and decided to pursue it. We wrote the first album in the summer holidays and we thought 'we'll release it and see how it goes, if it works, then we'll take it on as a career', and it did, and I guess the rest is history.

Irfan: From your first solo album, 'Soni Lagdi' is blatantly one of my favourite tunes. From a production point of view, can you explain the processes behind making such a class tune?

Mukhtar: 'Soni Lagdi' was one of those tracks that took me the least amount of time to complete. It was the first time I had heard the vocals of 'Lember Hussainpuri' and I was instantly drawn to this particular track, due to the fact his vocal performance was superb. I took it home and I spent about half a day on it and it was completed. Sometimes it happens, it's the ones you spend the least amount of time on and they're the ones that people pick up on. It was only about five hours work and I took it to the record company the next day and played it to them and they expected me to have a rough version but, what I was playing was the finished product, they were surprised. That was Lembher's first official release in the UK and now he's a household name.

Mukhtar Sahota

Richard: Do you find that when you create a killer track like 'Soni Lagdi' you sometimes start trying to recreate it? We see so many 'part 2s' or 'the next version of X track' nowadays, how compelled as an artist are you to do this and do you fight against it? Mukhtar: A lot of artists do it but I try and stay away from it. Some people might say this track sounds like something from an old album and was I trying to create it again and it's never like that for me. I don't have the mentality that 'this track worked so I'm going to try and do something similar' because it never comes off like that. With '4 The Muzik', I went through over 200 vocals and I spent a whole day with them, and, I have an idea of what kind of vocal I'm after but I don't start planning the music until I've got the vocal. There's never a time when I think this could be the next 'Soni Lagdi' or whatever. At the end of the day there are a lot of artists out there and I don't have a problem with what anyone else is doing unless they're ripping off other people's stuff.

Irfan: An artist called Kais has done a Hola Seniorita Mix (a remix) of that track (Sanu Sohni Lagdi) on his new album Klub'ch that has just been released on Envy. It's basically your track with a sample added; what's you view on the mix?

Mukhtar: I have not heard this version, but, if there's a sample on the track, then I have no interest of listening to it. But, I guess I'll leave the public be the judge for that.

Richard: There's a strong message in the title of the latest album, '4 The Muzik', where did that idea come from?

Mukhtar: The title came from everything in the making of the album. From dealing with the record company to putting the tracks down, I just wanted to keep it 'for the music'. Its about the music and getting that right and when I was dealing with the label it was just about the music and creating good music so we thought that it should be the name for the album.

Richard: The label, Realtone Records, is based in Birmingham along with several other bhangra labels, but what made you pick Realtone over some of the others?

Mukhtar: I've been through all the other labels like Multitone, Roma, Envy, and Kamlee. I've had dealings with all of them and they've all got the same problems. Everyone there is like 'we wanna do this, and do that, and take you everywhere' but when it comes to the crunch we're looking at each other thinking 'what happened to this and what happened to that?' With Realtone, we've worked together and everything they promised has happened on time. I have a good working relationship with the label. Often the case is 'I've got this product, let me see how much money I can make out of it'. That's the bottom line elsewhere but with Realtone it is for the music. As you can see with the videos for 'Jogi' and 'Rang Kala' there's quality and it's not like others with a few people standing around a car. There's more to it thanks to the record label for providing the budget.

Irfan: Realtone seem to have a good set up with their own PR division to promote the artist and not leave it up to the artist to do all their own promotion. Mukhtar: That's been the case; I've done it while I was with the Sahotas but when Realtone Records sat down they laid down laws of how they were going to do things in a professional manner. The upcoming labels will be thinking that's how to do it and not thinking 'why do we need professionals to promote us when we can do it ourselves?' In the past it has been that artists sign a deal to make an album and then don't pick much up after it. With Realtone I have the publishing deal as well so I get royalties on sales. It's better because it gives the artist an incentive to create good music. But you still see artists who grab the first outright deal they can and end up not so better off, because they make an album and don't get support afterwards. The artist thinks its best to get his money and run. We started out in 1987 and back in those days we wouldn't have a deal without royalties involved, so if someone remixed an old Sahotas track and it blew up then we would still get some royalties from it.

Mukhtar Sahota

Irfan: It seems that the current trend with Asian albums is to create a CD, which caters for all, i.e. one garage track, one hip-hop track and one R&B track and so forth. It's pretty obvious to me that these artists are not into all the styles of music on their own album, what are your views on people who make music they pretend that they're into?

Mukhtar: It's wrong; you should make music you have passion for. If you look at my album, there are all those different styles of tracks on there but I am 110% behind all those tracks. I can't write an album that's all the same, so when I listen to music its not just bhangra. It's a whole different variety. I have written a hip-hop, Desi, Reggae, and, there's a rock tune on this album, but that's what I'm into.

Irfan: Nina who happens to be a big fan of yours does song translations for the website lives in India and was wondering why there has been such a delay in getting your album out over there.

Mukhtar: It should be out very soon, we're flying out there in a few weeks for the new video and to release it over there. Our main aim was to release it in the UK and in America simultaneously. The track 'Mehfil' on the album is getting a good reception in India, and that's the track that they're going to shoot the video for over there. But it's just a matter of schedule and planning. We didn't want it to come out in India sooner because of the piracy and stuff, so hopefully it'll be all right. Our main concern was America because of the downloading so we made sure it was released in the UK and America at the same time, which worked.

Irfan: We get a lot of hits from people abroad in countries like Holland, Norway and places like that where there isn't the distribution of the albums, so I guess that makes downloading a more acceptable option.

Mukhtar Sahota

Mukhtar: There are a few sites where you can buy online and they can ship abroad. Realtone Records will start selling abroad, and I can fully understand that if it's not available out there, then it's difficult to buy. The problem is that the market for this industry is so small, it's difficult to go out there and release the music with full press campaign and live shows. Irfan: We touched on this earlier, as an original artist, what is your view on sampling? P.S. no holding back! Mukhtar: There's not a sniff of a sample on my stuff and it was one of the reasons why I left Envy. Everything that's coming out of Envy is sample based, I used to go into the Envy studios and they had this blackboard which had an Envy artist on one side and next to it would be Foxy Brown. It was that blatant. They had all these artist names and what samples they were basing their songs on. A lot of people think that

the Envy assign the tracks to the artists, but it's the other way round, with the artists thinking 'I like this Dr Dre sample' and they put it on the board. I was talking to Envy and said 'what's going on? I'm part of this company and this is stupid. Whose music is this?' The only explanation they had was that it 'sells'. That was the case when I left three years ago. I don't know what the situation is now but recent releases would suggest it hasn't changed. There's no thought in it and it's a lack of creativity and imagination. I do what I can to promote original music and play live as well as play instruments.

Irfan: When watching Asian artists at recent melas I was disappointed to see so many miming. What do you think about that?

Mukhtar: It's ok to a certain degree because if you want to get out on the road and promote your music it's a form of promotion. With the Sahotas it was always live, we did PA's to start off with but only when the albums first came out and we had to get on the road to do a few tracks in a number of different cities. But as soon as the album was released we always did live gigs. But nowadays the live circuit has changed because the promoters aren't putting as much money into the gigs to afford a full PA system and road crew. I remember when promoters came to 'The Sahotas' asking us to do PA's and we turned around and said 'no' because we are a live band. It's hard for bands to go on the road because promoters aren't investing in their events to have a band on live. All they want to do is put big names on flyers. I've had so many arguments with promoters when they've booked us for a PA and they put 'The Sahotas - Live' on the flyer. It was just stupid so we stopped doing PA's.

Irfan: The amount of so-called 'ghost productions' (producers making tracks for other producers) going on in the desi scene is quite shocking. What's your view on this?

Mukhtar: There's a lot of it happening. There are artists who go to these 'ghost producers' with a few ideas, pay a few quid, and then have the rest of the track done for them. But it's these 'ghost' producers who come off worse because if the album blows up, they've got no credit for it. It's the same as with samples, why are you fronting something that is not your own production? Someone's got a bit of money and they want a good album so they 'buy' the quality. How far can you go with that? Because when someone pulls you up and says 'we want you to do a live performance' what do you do?

Richard: The album cover for '4 The Muzik' is fantastic. What was the thinking behind the cover? Mukhtar: We were sat down with the title and it needed to relate. It would've been silly to have me posing on a car with that title. So, I had a few ideas. The idea with the conductor was the one I opted for. I've always liked the idea of the flip side of the CD cover to be the reverse of the front image. The pictures on the inside of the cover, showing the musicians with the different instruments are all me. It's not like I'm posing with a guitar and can't play it, everything on there I have played on this

4 The Muzik

album. So I thought it was a great way to bring that across on the album sleeve.

Irfan: What are your words of wisdom for young people trying to get into the music industry?

Mukhtar: Play an instrument and be musical. Most kids will get behind a computer and that's all right because you will need one at some stage, but I say don't rely on the computer to make the music for you. People need to learn how to play instruments and then you can get a better buzz when you hear it on your CD. I don't get a buzz from sitting at a computer and shifting objects around and making up a track. I like sitting in the booth and playing the instruments, that's where the buzz is for me. It's a great achievement when you can play so many different instruments and fuse them together on one track.

Richard: 'Jogi' has been a massive tune and the rock theme has really made headway, considering that it hadn't really been done before it must've been a bit of a gamble?

Mukhtar: Once the track was done we had our fingers crossed it was going to be big but I was really hesitant. I have always been into rock and back in the days I used to have the full motorbike gear with pointed boots and chains. I was really into heavy metal and, I did a small project with a guitarist, 'Asian based rock instrumentals', but, we never really took it anywhere, as it was for our own pleasure. When I started working on 'Jogi' I heard the vocals and I thought it would be good to make it into a rock tune. It was either going to be desi or rock, there was no middle ground with this track. He sings the song in an aggressive way, and rock was the best path for it. I played it to my wife, and family, and they all said 'go for it'. The only thing that was holding me back was I wasn't sure how the Asians were going to take to it because a lot of Asians aren't into rock.

Richard: Apparently it was not going to be a main track until the video guys heard it. Were you surprised with how it came to be the lead single from the album?

Mukhtar: That's right, it wasn't initially. The director was great and is from a company called 'Street Life Productions'. We sat with him initially to shoot the video for another song, until we played him 'Jogi'. He said, "I'm doing the video for this track!!" We discussed the concept of the video and said it had to be rock, with a band and everything and he said it was fine and it was a matter of two days and we got all kitted up, including the mask, and put it down. Before we knew it we were in some disused factory in Smethwick, an old industrial part of Birmingham and away it went.

Irfan: The 'Rang Kala' video is another good visual work, but this shows that you don't have to just throw money at a video for it to be good, there has to be some thinking behind it. We don't see this that often with desi videos is it the lack of creativity or simple a lack of money?

Mukhtar: A lot of it is a lack of money, as we can all see from numerous videos on the channels today. They are often the same with the same people the same club and the same cars. They think lets churn it out and they don't put much money into it because they're looking to make big returns from the album. Someone told me recently that Envy have invested in their own visual recording equipment so their videos are all going to be in house and that's why they're probably all the same. Some people might be looking to buy the CD but when they see the video they think 'that's just spoilt the song for me'. You're sitting with your family and you can't view half the videos. You might think there's nothing wrong with it being a bit sexual, but at the end of the day its poor quality and poor concept and they get a load of people in front of a camera and say "go", take it away, edit it and there's a video.

Mukhtar Sahota

Irfan: Switching things to The Sahotas, when are you guys going to get back together to make create some more international hits such as 'Teri Meri Gal Ban Gaye?' Mukhtar: We'll start producing an album next year. We'll start in January and it could be the end of 2005 when it's released. But at the moment we're just having a break, we've been doing it for 18 years, I'm still 25 by the way (Mukhtar smiles), and the rest of the boys have got kids so as you can imagine they're busy with their families and its demanding. We decided to take this year out and concentrate one our families. A lot of people say the Sahotas have split up but that was never the case, it is just a break. Irfan: What else is lined up for yourself in the near future?

Mukhtar: There's quite a lot going on, I'm working closely with the record company and I'm involved in a few of their projects that are happening. Some of these are a series of compilations called 'In House' purely for the reason its only going to be the Realtone producers on there. There are about seven producers, and many of them are up and coming, the only one that's been released yet is Super Jones. The compilation will be the next release, and I've done my two tracks for it, Super Jones has done two tracks and everyone's getting in there. The CD will consist of 14 tracks.

Richard: Fourteen? Yours only had eight!!

Mukhtar: It's just the industry. I've been thinking for my next album it's not going to be anything less than ten tracks. Most of the Realtone stuff will have ten or more tracks. After the first compilation we're going to do a pure 'desi' in house album. No hip-hop no rap or anything, just going back to the roots, getting the tabla, the vajda and tumbi out and having 14 hardcore desi tracks aimed at hardcore desi fans. That's something missing at the moment, its all fusion to the max. Realtone are also organising their own shows, 'Realtone Nights', which will be showcased in different cities, starting off in Nottingham. It'll mainly be concentrating on promoting Realtone artists and other artists who have been with us.

Richard: I guess that pretty much wraps it up, but what's your final message for the thousands of people who tune into desitunes4u?

Mukhtar: Just keep checking out desitunes4u.com and keep the music real. Try to steer away from samples, try and produce better videos and piracy and downloading is the worst thing that can happen at this time to the Asian industry because its still a growing scene and market and the piracy is pulling it down.

That concludes the interview, a big thanks to Mukhtar Sahota and the Realtone Records crew for taking some time out to chat to us.